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Audrey is the Chief Operations Officer of Citywise Education.

Citywise is a not-for-profit organisation which was set up to run education, sporting and personal development programmes. It began in 1991 in Dublin as a response to educational under-achievement of young people living in difficult city backgrounds.

In this interview we discuss how Audrey came to know of Citywise and the impact it made on her life.

If you would like to know more about Citywise and/or make a donation to this great organisation, please visit their website here.

Thanks so much for listening!

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Script | Interview with Audrey McMahon

Catherine McMahon 0:08

Welcome to hearts minds. My name is Catherine McMahon, and I'm joined here with Audrey McMahon, who is not related to me. McMahon is a very common surname, a great surname. Audrey works for Citywise Education. And that's why we're going to talk about Citywise today. Citywise provides young people with after school and out of school education, and that's the synopsis of Citywise, but I think Audrey could tell me a little bit more about us and was, what it means for her, I suppose, and how she got to know it. So how did you connect up? What city was the first time that you heard about it? Or how did you connect up with it?

Audrey McMahon 0:48

So although I'm from the area, and I can literally see my house from the building, and I never actually knew what city wise was because I went to secondary school in the sixth century. So the first time I came across city wise it was, it was an inconvenience to me. Because they built this building. And before this was here, I could cut across the grass, my house, and I get off the bus, and it was great. And then they built a bit on how to walk around to walk by every day for maybe like three or four years and had no clue what the building was what they don't. So then, a few years later, my nephews started here. And so I have three nephews, and they all come through coos, they're all grown adults now. But they've all gone through Cui. So that was how I heard of, and there's a couple of different programmes with their, their school. And then they signed up to take part in some of the after school programmes. And so I have a little bit of an idea then what they joined. But still, I still didn't know a lot about it. And

Catherine McMahon 1:54

so this is Dublin, by the way.

Audrey McMahon 1:58

And so, yeah, like, I mean, I would drop them around or pick them up for what did you do today, I played some football, or we learned about volcanoes. And I'd be like, Okay, that's a bit of a random mix, from football to volcanoes. But okay. And so then I actually was, so before I started here, my background was in childcare and crashes. So I had actually left work, I haven't been too well. And I had to give up work. So I was out of work for a couple of years. And I wasn't in a position to go back to work full time, still health wise, but I still wanted to do something. And it kind of got a before and after two years of just not being able to do anything. So my sister mentioned that. They were always looking for volunteers here. Why didn't I come around and have a chat with John and I was like, he was the centre manager at the time. So I thought, Oh, are you sure? Yeah. Okay. And so that was how I started then I had a chat with John. I am, I started helping in Grenoble, Hamburg, which is an after sale group for primary school children from like, January 3 to sixth class. And, and it's all about personal development. So we do sports, you bake me do art, we do games, that kind of those kinds of activities. But the whole point of it is the children do on a day, like develop social skills, and they make friends and they build their confidence and 3g on it without even realising that 3g on it. So I did that for a few weeks. And then the summer come open the programmes finished in the summer, but there was a couple of summer camps running and I was asked for a helper, Dan. So I said, Oh, yeah, sure. We'll, we'll give it a go. And, and then in September, again, I was asked to come back and volunteer and I thought, yeah, I still wasn't working. I thought it was two hours a week was all I was doing. Okay, but it was enough. For me at the time, it was awkward balance. I still had a foot in doing something related to what I had been doing before I got sick. And, and it just sort of spiralled. Really after that. Then I was asked to what I'd be interested in helping with leadership. And I thought, yeah, okay, I don't really know what to bail for. So a leadership programme is for secondary school children. It's literally what it says on the team. And, you know, we do lots of different activities with them and training sessions throughout the year. And it just, it gives them I suppose, a sense of responsibility nearly that, you know, they sort of feel that they have gotten something from their community by this service being here. And so then they want to go back and do something for their community. So they come back and volunteer and they give up their summers in the to the summer camps and like, we didn't have them, there's no way we could do summer camps. We could have like 150 kids on one day. And we certainly don't have time to do it all and but you know, the leadership role And then it was great because it also was about them develop into, and watching them kind of grow into, into young kind of animals and decide what they wanted to go off and, and deal with their lives. And

Catherine McMahon 5:14

why city wise, like, why was it built?

Audrey McMahon 5:19

So originally it started actually in a Amien street in the city centre. And and I think I'm gonna say I think because those of your child, and it was like after school programmes and there was, you know, in need in that area, and there was you know, they were lacking services. So the founder set it up in there and they eventually moved out here. And because again, the area was really lacking services. And, you know, after school services, we used to do programmes to for students that had been, you know, for whatever reason, we're out of secondary skills, so they could come here, and, um, you know, complete their, their junior cert like the we have volunteers and software that would help them to at least get through their junior cert. And, but I mean, we're based, we're based in a disadvantaged area. And our whole thing is to improve communities through youth education. So it becomes a cycle, kind of. So I guess I grew up here and never, never knew anything about city wise until my nephew started. And

Catherine McMahon 6:32

as a benefit for you volunteering, like the initial, like, even for people who are thinking of volunteering or kind of wondering about it. I know everybody understands the benefit of it. But at a personal level, how did you see it play out in your life?

Audrey McMahon 6:48

It was huge, huge. I only had this conversation last week again. And see I had been working in a in a crash, and it just wasn't a good environment. And so I haven't been well for a few months and didn't really know kind of what was wrong. I just knew there was something not right. I was really tired all the time. I had no energy, I just kept falling asleep, even artery SERPs, I still didn't feel any better. And it got to a point where I actually was falling asleep in work. And I was like, at that point, I was like, No, this isn't, this isn't okay for the children that are like in my care. And so I had to go and speak to my boss. And it was it really wasn't a good environment. And my last kind of may last couple of months, their particular where we really, really tough and really took I was never an overly confident person anyway, with a bit of confidence that I did have was completely gone after I left there. I just really, yeah, I had no source of faith in myself, I suppose. And so when I started here, little by little, I kind of got that back. Because the staff here are great. I see myself doing it now. And I'm like, Oh, he comes out first. And the staff are great. Pushing it and challenging you in a way that you don't even realise 3g on it, if that makes sense. And, and it was just little things of, you know, okay, we have corporate sponsors coming in today, and you're volunteering in this camp, so you have to speak to them. And I was like, am I gonna know? Like, I can't like, I can't speak to them. I'm fine when I'm with kids, because I'm used to that. And I've done that for years. But like, no, no, I can't. You kind of have to talk to them. Alright, okay. So it was just little things like that bit by bit. And, and then I went in, like, I went in Johnson PLC horses after I finished school. But like, I never had any sort of confidence to say, Yeah, I could go off and I could do like a degree or I could do a masters or anything like that. I've now done both. Since I've been here. And it's it's made a huge difference. It's given me so much confidence, and I will forever be grateful to see wise for it's just, it's been amazing.

Catherine McMahon 9:18

Yeah, that's that is that is amazing that it's just I think when you hear the person's story, it makes a huge difference. You know what I mean? Sometimes, you kind of you hear about how volunteering benefits, and you see it yourself how it benefits, but sometimes you don't realise how deeply it goes to the very core of your being sometimes with regards just, yeah, your self esteem and your confidence in yourself. And it is interesting, I think I've volunteered a little bit with city wise, obviously just a bit. Just seeing how it's kind of like yeah, you're you're kind of jumped into the deep end and just

Audrey McMahon 9:54

say that all the time. It's like you kind of get we're trying to work on it, but it's like, you get thrown in at the deep end and you do I just have to like, figure it out. I always remember, like, as a volunteer, one of the staff members coming to me 10 minutes before the group started and said, We need an art activity. And I was like, oh, yeah, yeah. So we're gonna start in 10 minutes, but we need an art activity. I can plan an activity in 10 minutes. Yeah, you can because you have to. And it is that real sort of sink or swim. And it's only afterwards, when you kind of step back that you're like, Oh, I could totally do that. I could still do that. I just didn't believe that I could do it.

Catherine McMahon 10:31

And I think what happens is, Well, I certainly notice it with with people who come to volunteer, the initial thing of kind of stepping into that volunteering space, it's kind of Oh, it's a bit like jumping into the forest. But then, subsequently, when you come out when you're leaving the building, or whatever, you're totally vim dope. Like, you're totally Yeah. So it is interesting how the experience really? Yeah, builds you up.

Audrey McMahon 10:56

Yeah, like it's completely changed. So like, our manager here now, and I would never like when I started volunteering, I would never, ever, somebody had said to me, in eight years time this is you're going to be a manager there. I would have been like, No way, would I be a manager there. If people had told me 10 years ago, you learned to work them at like primary school children and teenagers and you'd over I'll be like, no, no, there's no way. And I could never actually see myself now going back to childcare. I joke all the time, though. folia had not come in and had that conversation with Changjo saw his full time period of, but I mean, I love it. And I'm so one of the best things I've ever done in life was come in and have that conversation with John, and I don't think I will ever regret that conversation. Because it's led me to where I am now.

Catherine McMahon 11:46

At a personal level, apart from the self, you know, the self esteem and the confidence at a personal level, how do you see? How do you see it helped to grow in ways I know, that sounds a little bit, whatever is introspective.

Audrey McMahon 11:59

And it just, I suppose it made me realise the difference that you can make. And so I'm here I think about at purchasing a gun is my ninth year now, between volunteer and working. So I'm seeing I'm seeing kids that would have only been started in their first year when I was here. And they are now in college. And if so, you're looking and you're talking to them. And they're saying like, yeah, I remember when I started, and I had you as my group leader, and I'm like, that was like, a really long time ago. Yeah, yeah. But I remember or, you know, we've had, a lot of our staff have come through the programmes themselves, I always kind of joke and say, I'm a bit of an outsider, because I didn't come until I was like, almost 30, like mid 20s, late 20s. Whereas most of the staff have actually come through the programmes themselves. So even then, when you see them now, you know, they're fully grown adults, they finished college, and they would have been the first group of leaders that are you've worked with, and they'll come back and say things gnl, that you makes you realise the impact that you've had on them without even I don't mean when I mean, and to have produced, you don't realise the full extent of the impact you have on them. And it's only like that when you actually sit back and have a little bit of a think about it, like we had a staff member leave there before Christmas, and you know, just different things that she said, like she would have been the first group of leaders that I had, and different things that she said, and I'm like, oh, that's actually really sweet. And you realise it is kind of worth it, you know, because it's life and you have days that are or bad days, and you're like, you kind of question yourself, you know, you're fighting, not fighting. But when you're arguing with the rest of management about something, you're like, is this worth it? Like, is this really worth it. But then you have those moments where you're like, it's 100% worth it. And it was really, really hard for me personally to step away from the group's I spend more time in an office now than actually with the groups and it was the hardest thing to do. But I remember somebody saying to me, you know, you have to look at it. Now you're in a position where you can actually make more of an impact on their lives, because you get to make these changes, or you get to say, what works and what doesn't work. And you have that ability to change it a little bit. So it's just, yeah, I don't even know if that actually

Catherine McMahon 14:30

answers. So like, because I remember you saying I can't remember her name, but one of the girls that, you know, when I was volunteering a couple of years ago, she must have been about 13 I'd say and now she did a really really good living certain as I'm studying in Maynooth now and it is that element of kind of like seeing, seeing possibility and seeing potential in people and kind of going Yeah, I can I can do something here even though I will It's kind of like 45 minutes, every two weeks with water. Of all like, how many just to get an idea of city by itself? How many girls and boys come through here? Like,

Audrey McMahon 15:12

what's the Supre COVID, like we would have had over. We could have had maybe close to 1000 kids a week coming through. And so I mean, we have our own programmes that we do. But we also work. You know, the last couple years, we've tried to work more with schools in the area and to try and expand our reach a little bit more. So now we work with three local schools a week document to do a STEM based programme with us for like, two hours over 12 weeks in total. Yeah. And then we also partner with Trinity to do another programme called Bridge to college. That's another 30 disservice. I should know the numbers. I'm confused, just because the COVID Yeah, I think at the minute, we're taking 24 on that programme, but before that had been just over 30. So I mean, like, British College on its own. It's like 30 kids a week. And the stem programmes are 20 kids each. And that's without our after school programmes, which are, you know, huge. And then we have our Fast Track Academy programme, which offers extra classes mentoring study space. And our numbers on that are low this year, because of COVID. Yeah, because the impact of sports. I mean, that programme on its own has about 150 Kids, which is actually low for us. And boats, you know, yeah, the numbers are crazy. And then in the summer, we have more than that again, because you know, we have summer camps. We have, I think it's 10 local schools come in over 12 days. And to do I suppose what would have been our equivalent of a sports team skill? Yeah, they come in here for the day and do that. And unlike, again, those 10 days, be 100 knowledge, children from an end without any of our programmes or anything else that we're down. So it's quite a big reach.

Catherine McMahon 17:08

Yeah. And I'd say in reality, like, you have the kids coming in, but I'm sure it makes an impact to kind of him indirect impact into the family. Yeah. Do you notice us?

Audrey McMahon 17:20

Yeah, so you get that a lot. So like, I just have to look at my own three nephews, like the eldest one came, you know, his parents seeing the benefit for him. So then the next one came, and then the next one came, and that happens a lot. So just before Christmas, I had done some research myself for college. And I spoke to some of the older students. And later, one of the things I asked him was, you know, why did you come chasing boys in the first place. And generally, if they were the first, if they were the oldest, they would say, I got the forum in school, or I came for a summer camp, my friends were coming for summer camp, and then I just kept coming back. If they had an older sibling, it was the answer generally, was my brother or my sister came, and my mum and dad seen how much you benefit them. So then it came after. And it just becomes, just becomes a natural sort of thing. Like, yeah, like, there's some kids that are here now. And I mean, their parents came. And like, there's a quote that I can think of, you know, off the top of my head that, yeah, their parents came here, when they were, you know, like, 10, or whatever, they came for a summer camp, or they came to an after school group. And now it's like, okay, my child is old enough to know, I want to send them and, but it does become a becomes a cycle. And it becomes a case even just on my cousin is here. And, you know, my friend is here. So now I want to be here. tools have a really big knock on effect. And I'd say in like the surrounding area where we are, we're quite well known. And it's not even necessarily for, like advertising. It's more word of mouth. Yeah. And sometimes we will have skills reaching out to or saying, Look, we have a kid that we think would benefit from your programmes, you know, we've heard about yours, sir, any way we can send them or what we need to do like, and so it has a really big knock on effect in the whole of salary, the

Catherine McMahon 19:16

whole of the community. Yeah. And also the schools is a great support system for them as well, I guess, because it's kind of like, you see great potential in the students you have, but then they're ending at four o'clock or three o'clock and then you're kind of thinking how can I support this person? Yeah.

Audrey McMahon 19:30

And some of our programmes do that. Like I said, you know, we spoke about grammar and Hamburg and how that's about personal development. We have also mentioned FasTrak Academy we have another programme called Junior Foster, which is for primary school children and first third year first and secondary students sorry, and, and it's an academic based programme. So like, we never turn anybody away from a programme but I suppose the aim of Fast Track is really, if you have a child that's doing really Well, unskilled, you feel they're getting a little bit bored, you don't want them to lose interest at a young age, because the whole perception of education for the rest of their life. So the Fast Track programmes, pushes them. So we might look at, say, Junior Fastrac, we might have a month of geography activities, you might even want the science activities you might have a month that's cultural. So they look at different languages and things like that. This is the fast track programmes are all academic based, but they're joined in a way. Sometimes the kids don't even realise that they're actually learning and that it's education, because it's, it's all hands on learning. So you're learning about volcano. And it's not, it's not saying anything about schools are held there at all. It's just, we don't want them coming here and feeling they're coming to school again, they're not gonna, they're not going to get the same benefit from or have the same interest. So if they were learning about volcanoes, rather than somebody standing on top of the room and telling them, this is what happens with a volcano, we give them materials and say, rice, you're going to build your Arcane, or we're going to show you how to build it, we're going to make it a rock, and then talk about it afterwards. And then they're like, oh, sorry. We've tricked you a little bit there. And you just didn't realise till the end. And so it just kind of pushes them to keep wanting to learn and to keep challenging them to

Catherine McMahon 21:18

Yeah. Because I think that also there was, if I remember, rightly, there was a kind of a robotic competition that's really big here. Yeah. And yeah, just the different things. I remember, I brought a group in to the National Museum of stuff. Because I remember, we were going in, and I think two or three of the girls, like who were about 11, I feel like I know where this is going. Yeah, wouldn't come in, because all of a sudden, they said they're dead, like sudden realisation. So yeah, just just that kind of immediate connection with with things like that. Yeah. Which was very terrible. It's known as the dead Zoo, around here.

Catherine McMahon 22:02

It was very why there have been? No, yeah, they got very adamant about the whole thing, which is, which is quite interesting. So going forward, I guess, for you, your I mean, I don't want to say you're committed. Anyways, but in a sense, I mean, how do you see it going forward to see it? And that sort of sense building open? I'm guessing, like, when when you look at the kids who come through here who grew up and during college and then on to their professional life, then they come back here to volunteer, it spreads out that ripple effect spreads throughout the community. Yeah. And yeah, I'm just imagining that that's, that's where the rubber hits the road, really, with regards just how that influences Yeah, but

Audrey McMahon 22:52

like, we had, is not working with us anymore. But he still volunteer. And so it was his place. I think that once you are somewhere involved, you can never really escaped. So we had a past. He came to all the programmes himself, he was a past staff member. And he's still involved now on some of our voluntary committees. And he always tells us really great story of how, when he was growing up, there was you know, he's local, he's just from across the road. And there was nobody on his role to ask about going to college. So he wanted to go to college, but he didn't have anybody that he could ask for, you know, if you wanted to get into a trade, like if you wanted to be a plumber, or an electrician, or there was plenty of people on the road that he could ask. And so he always uses that story to describe city wise. And when he found that he was he had somewhere to call and somebody that, you know, he could ask those questions to find somebody that could give them the information. And, like, something that suppose we're all I am definitely really, really proud of. We don't, there was some research carried out. So we statistics might be slightly off here, but not too far off. I'm not great with maths and numbers, both of the people in like West holida hold a third level degree, it's, you know, it's a really small percentage, like it's, I think it's a single finger, it's low double figures. And both of the people that come through our foster Academy programme, and the percentage of them that progress on to, you know, whether it's, they go and get a trade or they go to college, or they do a PLC, you know, they have some plan once they finish school, like our percentage rate is like home and the 80%, like into 90%, which I'm really, really proud of, and when you see that you realise how big of an impact you can have. And like you say, lots of them want to come back then. So there's just this. I don't think it's ever even been like, you know, something that we've sort of forced on people, but people have come through they just have this mentality of I've gotten so much from seat wise and I've benefited so much from it that now I want to be in a position To do that for somebody else to help somebody else, like we have people are doing, they're leaving search and they're like, Okay, so can I come back in September to volunteer? Like, I want to teach a class? I'm really good at maths, or I'm really good at English and I want to teach a class. That's yeah, absolutely, you can. And they're almost looking forward to it. Because it's like, the next year, the next step, yeah, yeah. And it's, it's really lovely to see that they are choosing to market with their own freewill and, and that they want to continue to make a difference, or they want to help somebody the way they were, were helped. And I found even people that maybe for whatever reason, aren't in a position to come back and volunteer, they will still always support that voice. So if they, you know, hear somebody saying they have a child, and they don't know, they're looking for something to do, well, have you tried C wise, or we have a jaw, they'll sign c part in the draw? If we went and asked anybody to do anything for us, you know, any past members? I don't think any of them would say no. And like I said, I don't think it was anything that was like ever forced on people just Dziedzic marketing plan. No, it just became a natural source of a natural source of thing. Yeah. And it's really lovely. Like I say, I've done some research before Christmas. And I was like, typing up definers just getting on emotion, trying to read some of the stuff that the the kids had said, because it was just so lovely, how they all were given the same answers of, you know, what they thought of city wise, the healthier they got the impact they had on their lives, the impact it had on their family's lives, and how they all wanted to come back and give back to somebody else. And it was just, it was really, really lovely to see, to kind of you hear all these bad things like about the area or you know, young people today, you know, this, but sort of restores your faith in humanity a little bit to kind of see, well, no, you know what I think? I think our future is gonna be fine with these because they know what they want to do. And they want to make a change in one way or another. And it's just really lovely to see.

Catherine McMahon 27:10

Yeah, it's interesting, actually, one of the things that really struck me when I came here first was one was the sense of when you open the door, everybody, everybody who was there, it didn't matter if it was kind of like, it had no connection to you whatsoever, you know, they would say, Hey, how are you? You know, it was an automatic connection with you, it wasn't kind of like, you know, you're coming in, you're volunteer, I didn't know nothing about you and and disconnecting from you, like everybody felt a certain responsibility for whoever went through the door. And that certainly, you always got that sense of welcome. You know. And then the second thing that really struck me was the role modelling, you know, in the same as you were saying, that sense of like, a 12 year old saw the 14 year old doing well, the 14 year old, so the 18 year old, like, that sense of it kind of a pleasant ambition, not a huge kind of like, we all have to get there. And there's a massive drive, you know, but just that kind of sense of we all can do this together.

Audrey McMahon 28:06

Yeah. And that's it, it's like, you know, for me, I want them, I want the kids to come in here, to see their own potential, and to see that they can do whatever it is they want to do, like, you know, set your mind to it and put in the work. And if you want to get to a particular place, you want to do a particular thing. Like I mean, there's nobody saying that you can't do it, and what can we do to help you get there? Like, you don't understand the car system grant, okay, we'll get somebody to run through it with you. And you don't think you're going to be in a position to pay? Okay, well, let's have a look and see, are you eligible for you know, like, here or there, or, you know, what opportunities are there to help get you there? And, and it is just a thing of, we just want the best for them. And the role model, and yeah, you know, you describe it really well it is we look at the younger kids. And they see like the 13 or 14 year olds as leaders. So then the eight and nine year olds are like, can I be a leader like you when I grow up? And they're like, Yeah, of course. And then those like 13 and 14 year olds are watching leaving surgeons getting ready to go on to college, and well, yeah, well, they're my neighbour and they're going off to college. They're in Trinity. So yeah, why can't I go to Trinity? And, and lots of our staff continue to study and we never really required quite open about it. I suppose. I'm finished now thankfully, like for a few years, but I have never been, you know, shy about saying yeah, I'm working full time and I'm studying and you know what, it's really really hard but oh my god, it's so it's so worth it. And, you know, some of them will say like, awful like, why are you going back like, what's the point? Yeah, you're Yeah, cuz I want to and I'm like, Yeah, I was 3032 I think when I got my degree, and for I have no problem saying that, you know, I just didn't know really maybe what I wanted to do, I didn't have the confidence to go and do it. And so, you know, not everybody knows 17 or 18 what they want to do, and that's okay too. And we just have a plan for yourself of what you want to do after school. And then if you change your mind in a few years, or you're doing something that you don't think is right for you, that's okay. Like you can, you can change your mind and you can do something else. And we'll still be here to help you in any way that we can. If you need a reference or you need work experience or whatever it is that we can do. We still be here to do it for you.